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Wanted Features
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3rd Person Camera
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
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110 months ago by
Grone
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I reckon a third person camera would be a cool addition to the game. I saw a bit in a trailer where a camera was following the ship and it looked pretty damn awesome.
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110 months ago by
MemoryThief
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This has come up in many forms, and I regret saying that 3rd person camera in terms of use for in-game perspective is not functional in mines or fair in competitive combat. Maybe in areas where combat is impossible for MMO or aesthetic reasons, but not while flying.
Again reason being that it's either too much of an advantage in open space - or it's cumbersome in mines and you would be switching the view constantly.
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110 months ago by
Timster480
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If a locked 3rd person view is out of question, would a free camera such as the one in Fallout 3 / Fallout New Vegas be more reasonable? It wouldn't lock the view but would allow you to atleast look at your ship and know what you are flying, also if you wanted to compare size for anything, this would be very useful. If you insist on not being able to do this as it may cause unfair combat, maybe make it so that you can only use this camera while you are not moving and you are unable to shoot while in this free camera.
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110 months ago by
muggsbud
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I think third person is pretty much out of the question for small ships. too advantageous for peeking around corners or clumsy when moving. but it would definitely be better for base ships if/when they become player controllable; as they cant really go into tunnels too much nor be involved in a high speed chase around corners.
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110 months ago by
CityBuilder
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That's kind of a shame really.
When I think about it, if I spend a lot of in game currency to buy a new ship and deck it out, I'd at least want to be able to watch it moving around, and not be stuck inside of a cockpit all the time. Just my opinion, but I have less incentive to want to buy a better ship if I can't actually see it moving around. I understand the problems with logistics inside of tunnels, but maybe it could be setup that it switches the camera automatically to in cockpit when entering an asteroid. And I think that in space battles both players would have the same advantage since both could use the 3rd person view if they so wanted to.
So basically, have it available for battles (since anybody that wants to use it could, so theres no unfair advantage as far as I can think of) as well as available anytime one is not in a asteroid or other body that would make it not work good (like maybe docking) and have it automatically switch to in cockpit view when ever the player enters an asteroid.
I'm sure there are ways to make it work, if there is development time available to put towards it. There is very little that can't be overcome now adays in programming with the right amount of time and effort.
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110 months ago by
sherbetlemons
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if you were on a mining spaceship in 2081 what you would see would likely be a computer generated image of your surroundings anyway. the perspective would be easy to change that way (there could be a computer generated representation of your ship and surrounding objects, but you couldn't fly in this mode etc etc etc.)
btw, there is an item in ship edit mode called remote camera, presumably a camera drone. it isn't in game yet but... one day :)
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110 months ago by
Ashar
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damn, i hate 1st person space combat, the vids show the ships moving around in 3rd person, and it looked cool. You should atleast implement it during the testign stage to get peoples views on it.
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110 months ago by
D4rkFr4g
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Okay so as much as I would love a 3rd person camera to fly around in. I understand the reasoning behind not having it. As an alternative it would be nice to have instead of just a rear view camera to have other camera's on the ship as well. This way you can alternate which camera your looking through. So for example
Left Wing camera (facing cockpit or from cockpit facing wing) You would see more of the ship facing in but not as much surrounding.
Right Wing camera (facing cockpit or from cockpit facing wing)
Top-Down camera depending on ship. Similar to what the A380's have in the tail that looks down and shows both wings and the fuselage.
Rear View camera like normal.
Downward Camera
Now to make it balanced some ships might have more screens than others. So a cheap ship might only show one display at once. But a certain class of ship may have access to two screens at once or maybe a scout ship could have 4 screens at once, giving the ability to keep a better eye on their surroundings.. Instead of setting up each individual screen there could be a cycle button that just changes the camera to the next camera. This cuts down on the button assignments.
This would also help if there is dynamic damage to the ships. This would allow a way to check and see if there is an issue with a particular thruster or something like that.
This would keep the controls from being confusing in tunnels and would keep it fair by not allowing people to see around corners, plus it would allow for us miners to get a good view of ourselves flying around in our ship and could also allow for some different game mechanics come into play for different ship types/class.
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110 months ago by
Aesir
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Purely for Fraps video making purposes, perhaps allow a set of 3rd person cam views in single-player only. This bypasses the issue with competitive play, and allows the aforementioned 'aesthetics' value for those that are looking for cam features valued in video creation.
If this is considered, please consider inclusion of the following 3rd person cam views:
* Follow-me orbit (cam remains in stationary position relative to the ship)
* Follow-me with a rubber-band (cam remains in stationary position relative to the ship with some movement lag)
* Stationary (cam remains stationary, relative to the universe)
* Fly-by (a periodically re-positioned stationary cam, positioned some distance in front of the ship's direction of travel. Re-positioning occurs some time after the ship flies by).
* Externally-mounted on-ship cam (e.g., under 'wing', mounted by a weapon hard-point, or some other off-center cam view similar to a gun camera view you might see IRL jet fighter combat films).
Finally, a 2nd person cam positioned from a targeted object, e.g., another ship or asteroid (if target selection or target lock is a feature of the game).
No, really, finally...
If target lock is a feature of the game, then a 1st-person cockpit padlock view commonly found in 'hard-core' flight (Falcon 3.0) and space sims (Evochron Mercenary).
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110 months ago by
mrcalhou
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I would just like to point out that in real life people don't have FPS-like tunnel vision. Having a behind-the-ship third person perspective would be a better approximation and can be done in a way that still limits the viewing angle.
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110 months ago by
Genesiz
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I really agree third person is a must,
in battles this should be disabled like
"can't switch view while in combat"
in asteroids this should be disabled the same way
or make it available only when engines are off and with a free radius of 200mtrs
but what i find most important if i do get doomed at looking at my cockpit till infinity.
please make it possible to look around in my cockpit so i can see what's happening to my right, up or left
like free look in my cockpit, this gives the player a more realistic like im chilling in my cockpit feeling
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110 months ago by
Draven
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3rd person would be VERY helpful for me to work out where my ship is in relation to the surrounding asteroid. The number of times I've sent out my drill to have it come back without hitting anything because I don't know how far away anything is in a two dimensional environment (my single 2D monitor). Not to mention the sound of the sides of the ship banging into walls as I try to edge forward to reach the wall in front of me.
Advantage in combat? Being able to peek around corners is unfair? Isn't that what the radar is for? Won't we have radar positioning of the combatants anyway?
I vote for a 3rd person camera for the same reason I use one in racing games.
Sure, it isn't realistic, but as I am not physically there, I am not getting the feedback that I would normally get from a car or ship. When I’m in a car, I know when someone is right next to my back panel. I know how close to a wall I am as I fly around a corner. When using in-car cam, or bonnet-cam, sure it gives a better visual sense of being in the car, but makes you oblivious to things that you'd KNOW if you were REALLY there.
Same in the ship. If I really was in the cockpit and mining in a tunnel, you can bet I’d know how big the ship is and how close the walls are. You don’t get any of that feedback from the current cockpit. Just lots of wall bumping as you edge forward.
Please... allow a 3rd person camera. At least for the single player (and maybe when playing with my mates =).
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110 months ago by
Jasticus
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Maybe a camera could be allowed from another ship... say if you're going to dock with a 'mothership' or a station, you could see your ship as you would from one of those places if you're in range. It would be the way to see your ship from the outside, as someone else would. :)
The closest I could see to something like this working would be like it does in Freelancer... you're literally sitting right on top of your ship. It would be a nuisance inside of tunnels, though. You'd have to be automatically placed in 1st person when entering an asteroid tunnel. Would probably be more work than its worth to implement.
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109 months ago by
majormauser
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I was sort of surprised to see this post.... I was sure there was some way
to see a 3rd person view.
This is sort of a necessary feature. Players want to see the ship and the guns they are spending money on.
Its implementation into the single-player game is a must. Keen would have to decide how its implemented into the multiplayer game.
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109 months ago by
DeMoN
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3rd Person view isn't right for this game. However, having a limited "free-look" within your cockpit to check out your immediate surroundings would be really helpful.
If people want to see their ship, the best solution there is to add a 3D preview of your equipment loadout in the ship modification menu.
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109 months ago by
mrcalhou
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Draven:
"3rd person would be VERY helpful for me to work out where my ship is in relation to the surrounding asteroid. The number of times I've sent out my drill to have it come back without hitting anything because I don't know how far away anything is in a two dimensional environment (my single 2D monitor). Not to mention the sound of the sides of the ship banging into walls as I try to edge forward to reach the wall in front of me.
Advantage in combat? Being able to peek around corners is unfair? Isn't that what the radar is for? Won't we have radar positioning of the combatants anyway?
I vote for a 3rd person camera for the same reason I use one in racing games.
Sure, it isn't realistic, but as I am not physically there, I am not getting the feedback that I would normally get from a car or ship. When I’m in a car, I know when someone is right next to my back panel. I know how close to a wall I am as I fly around a corner. When using in-car cam, or bonnet-cam, sure it gives a better visual sense of being in the car, but makes you oblivious to things that you'd KNOW if you were REALLY there.
Same in the ship. If I really was in the cockpit and mining in a tunnel, you can bet I’d know how big the ship is and how close the walls are. You don’t get any of that feedback from the current cockpit. Just lots of wall bumping as you edge forward.
Please... allow a 3rd person camera. At least for the single player (and maybe when playing with my mates =)."
^This.
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109 months ago by
MemoryThief
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Pondering the use of 3rd person in situations where it is disadvantageous may perhaps be acceptable, example being in 'non-combative' areas, or in non-competitive scenarios like single player.
We may test the use of this at a later time, but for now fps it is.
QUOTE: Maybe a camera could be allowed from another ship... say if you're going to dock with a 'mothership' or a station, you could see your ship as you would from one of those places if you're in range. It would be the way to see your ship from the outside, as someone else would. :)
This is a pretty good compromise. Even then I'm not sure how easy this would be to program.
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109 months ago by
Expack
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Honestly, I think a 3rd-person camera, along with a 'clean' first-person camera (e.g. no cockpit, no HUD, etc.), should be included in a sort of 'spectator' mode which could be used for creating machinima, movies, or otherwise more interesting in-game videos.
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109 months ago by
Seranis
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I'd say out-of-combat Oblivion-like third person just to check yourself out as someone suggested would be nice, just for the occasional enjoyment of upgrades. I agree even more strongly though with the idea that you should somehow be able to look around the cockpit to increase immersion and just generally feel cool.
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109 months ago by
distant
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3rd person cam will definitely add tremendous enjoyment to the gameplay. All flightsims have multiple outside views and they never become an issue with unfair advantage in gamplay. The trailer shows a great feeling for the game, why not capitalize on it? It's should be a selling point of the game. I can picture a lot of gorgeous screencaps of missiles being fired out of the ship, the blue/red/yellow flames from jet engines, all the melees happening all around. A definitely big yes please.
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109 months ago by
drago55577
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space games i hate 3rd person i play the X series A.K.A X2 the threat X3 reunion X3 terran conflict
i would hate 3rd person cockpit view = DIS IS MOST AWSUMUST TING (sorry for caps)
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109 months ago by
mrcalhou
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Drago, if there was a toggle, then you wouldn't have to use it. I'd like a toggle for a third person camera that was directly behind and slightly tilted down (over looking your ship), but where you are not able to zoom out in multiplayer, this way players would be able to see their ship and get a good idea of the size of it and their position (to simulate how our real life senses give us this information even while were in a vehicle).
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109 months ago by
MIK3K
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Third person camera being an unfair advantage does not even make sense. If all players have it than it is not an unfair advantage/disadvantage - It is equal.
I would love to see a third person camera. I am not a programmer, but how tough can it be to move the camera coordinates? It has been done for ages. Heck, some games even let you rotate and zoom in and out a third person camera - I've seen it on youtube.
Please - Give us MORE choices and not less. Honestly, the arguments are pretty weak, suggestive of a lack of will to include a feature rather than it's true impact on the game. Build the best game ever without excuses and the money will come.
Okay - rant over.
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108 months ago by
sherbetlemons
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I think that one of the reasons the devs or whoever are reluctant to add a 3rd person camera is because it is 'unrealistic'. Fair enough, you cant see yourself in a 3rd person view. but the game is set in space, seventy years in the future. You would think a pilot would have access to decent simulation programs, so a 'simulated' 3rd person view would be perfectly realistic.
Maybe instead of a true 3rd person view, there could be an RTS style view, with abstracted colors, shapes and trajectories. the visual style of Flotilla comes to mind...
on a side-note, this could be coupled to line-of sight and radar, with the map/view only being updated as things came into view.
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107 months ago by
Evander
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I understand the reasons behind not having a 3rd person view in this type of game but I would really like to see my ship or how I have modified it.
Could you have an option to bring up a HUD that shows you the outside of your ship that you can rotate and possibly look at and maybe even select what you have installed on your ship?
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107 months ago by
muggsbud
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Wouldn't that be better when you are editing your ship's load-out rather than in game... just a though
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107 months ago by
159asmos
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QUOTE: if you were on a mining spaceship in 2081 what you would see would likely be a computer generated image of your surroundings anyway. the perspective would be easy to change that way
the main reason for having the third prison is to get a sens of your dementions
you need a screen to show a just the polygons of your ship and stuff around so you can sea how close you actually are to the cave wall and such. the area could range from 30 to 100 feet depending apon equipment
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107 months ago by
Evander
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QUOTE: Wouldn't that be better when you are editing your ship's load-out rather than in game... just a though
Good point. It would be better in the ship's load-out.
QUOTE: This has come up in many forms, and I regret saying that 3rd person camera in terms of use for in-game perspective is not functional in mines or fair in competitive combat. Maybe in areas where combat is impossible for MMO or aesthetic reasons, but not while flying.
QUOTE: I think third person is pretty much out of the question for small ships. too advantageous for peeking around corners or clumsy when moving. but it would definitely be better for base ships if/when they become player controllable; as they cant really go into tunnels too much nor be involved in a high speed chase around corners.
Now that I think about it more. Not having a 3rd person view/over the shoulder does seem to take something away from a open ended space game. If I remember right I believe every space game I have ever played had a 3rd person view. I don't think 3rd person view is unfair since everyone can do it. I also see the problem with camera issues when you're in close quarters but what if when you went into a small area the camera went right behind the ship and the ship became transparent?
Otherwise, I like everything else about the game so far. I think it is designed very well.
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105 months ago by
Xephelium
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Something like what Expack suggested, where it is used to make movies, would be best. I don't think you should be able to switch from first to third person in-game, because that allows you to peek around corners without exposing yourself.
However, like in Descent where you can film video, you should be able to do the same thing in Miner Wars, except when you replay the video, you can view it in third person. This way, suppose you are going into a massive epic battle, you can simply hit F12(or whatever) and it will start recording and you can focus on the combat.
Later you can replay it and view all the pretty smoke trails, explosions, and admire your ship.
This way you can't get any extra advantage, but you can also admire your ship in action.
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105 months ago by
mrcalhou
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There is no extra advantage if all parties have the ability to do so.
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105 months ago by
Xephelium
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I mean extra unrealistic advantage. You can't peek around corners without exposing yourself like you can with a 3rd person camera.
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105 months ago by
muggsbud
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actually there is an advantage to third person that not everyone has, someone sitting next to a corner can look around it without exposing themselves, but the person approaching the corner can not.
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105 months ago by
159asmos
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ATENCHEN DEVS!!!
QUOTE: if you were on a mining spaceship in 2081 what you would see would likely be a computer generated image of your surroundings anyway. the perspective would be easy to change that way
the main reason for having the third prison is to get a sens of your dementions
you need a screen to show a just the polygons/wire frame of your ship and stuff around so you can sea how close you actually are to the cave wall and such. the area could range from 30 to 100 feet depending on equipment.
this would help a lot because right now i have a vary hard time telling distances.
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105 months ago by
mrcalhou
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Exactly, right now it's increadibly difficult to get a sense of position relative to the surroundings. A 3rd person camera wouldn't be unrealistic at all. I imagine spaceships of the future wouldn't even have windows. They'd likely use external cameras that are synced with the spaceship. It's safer that way.
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105 months ago by
davey1357
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but the problem with your arguement is that cameras are a lot more unreliable than a screen: solar wind, magnetic interference, etc.
also screens (even super-reinfored space screens) are a lot cheaper than cameras, and we know how cheap we, as humans, are.
this is davey,
signing off
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105 months ago by
TiberiuS
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QUOTE: also screens (even super-reinfored space screens) are a lot cheaper than cameras...
Who told you that? Windshields for Space-Ships are NOT cheap!
Why not use some high-res cameras with EM-shielding and show it on a big screen in the cockpit? You need the cameras or many other sensors anyway when you want to have a decent HUD-System. This way you could process the pictures and add the hud with all the information you want to it.
Sure... when your computer is offline you're blind. But when it's offline you also can't do a thing with your ship like moving and other stuff. So it doesn't matter. :-P
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105 months ago by
mrcalhou
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Tiberius, I was actually expecting someone to make the arguement about the systems being offline. Glad you brought it up and then argued why it wouldn't matter.
Davey, I can't think of anything that is going to be 100% reliable 100% of the time. There are ways to mitigate the effect of background radiation and even perhaps solar flares. But in real life, if you are in the asteroid belt and caught in the solar winds, you'd need a heck of a lot of shielding to survive the radiation. So having the camera go out will probably be the least of your worries.
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104 months ago by
Powell
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Having a 3rd person view is a terrible idea. There is a huge advantage to 3rd person with having an unrealistic field of view. Having it in general really kills off the scare feel that i believe the developers were trying to accomplish with some aspects of the game. Not to mention any stealth concept. I think it's foolish of anyone to really throw a fit about not having this when it's just not how a game like this should nor was meant to be played.
In regards to it not being an advantage if everyone has it. It changes the entire feel of the game. Like playing a simulation racer in 3rd person, i find that silly. Though many people do it, it doesn't give the real feel.
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104 months ago by
mrcalhou
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I think its silly not to have it since we have no way of gauging how large our ships are with respect to the environment.
Now our sillys cancel each other out.
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104 months ago by
Powell
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Haha, well they can easily set it maybe just inside a base or somewhere where there is no combat possibility to do that, or they could have test/training area you can try out your ship.
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104 months ago by
ZevN47
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I think 3D person-view hurts immersion therefore I do not like it.
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104 months ago by
ZzZGuy
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Lets assume for a moment the devs will not put 3rd person view in the game, how would the issue of gauging how close the bottom/top/sides/rear of your ship is to another object?
This game is very focused around operating space craft in confined spaces where it's easy to rip the side of your hull off.
My idea is to have a "3D holographic display" of your ship and what is within X meters of you on your HUD.
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104 months ago by
ZevN47
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I don't think running into stuff hurts you unless you hit it too fast.
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104 months ago by
mrcalhou
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I'd still rather not bang the side of my ship into a wall if my cockpit view of the surrondings only represents a small portion of the size of my ship. The biggest issue with what we currently have is that it's nothing but tunnel vision. That's about as unrealistic as having a 3rd person camera, but at least a 3rd person camera is better at giving us the sensory feedback that we'd really have--when I drive I spend at least half of my time checking my mirrors and looking out the side windows.
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104 months ago by
Mackindale
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What if you could buy a 3rd person camera?
Like a little camera attached to a hinged pole and you could peek around corners with it?
Of course, if you're peeking, anyone could see the little camera poking around the wall, so it gives no real advantage, unless you're stealthy.
Just give it a cockpit feed, like you can do in Descent.
Would please everyone, I think.
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7/11/2012 2:35:50 PM,
Old PRE-ALPHA topic
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